TEHRAN – “Obviously the unqualified Western support has been a major factor in enabling Israel to continue down the tragic path that has led to the situation we see today,” says Paul Pillar, a nonresident fellow at the Center for Security Studies at Georgetown University.

Pillar also casts serious doubts over the Netanyahu government’s declared statement to eliminate Hamas, saying Israel “really cannot” decimate Hamas in the Gaza Strip. Professor Pillar believes that the rage against the Israeli attacks on Gaza is helping Hamas recruit new forces and that the resistance may take other forms in the future.

“Even if Hamas could be ‘destroyed’--which it really cannot, given how anger over the Israeli assault is gaining Hamas new recruits and support--resistance would take other forms, including groups yet to be formed and acts of resistance by angry individuals,” Pillar tells the Tehran Times in an exclusive interview.

Pillar also asserts that if a solution is not found to the decades-long conflict between Palestinians and Israelis there will be no end to the violence.

“There will be unending violence without a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,” notes Pillar who served as a national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia at the CIA.

Following is the text of the interview:

Q: How do you analyze Israel’s atrocities in Gaza in response to Hamas’s October 7 attacks in terms of proportionality, international law, especially attacks on health centers, etc.?

A: The well-known facts of what has transpired in Gaza since early October speak for themselves and really do not require analysis, including the fact that the casualties, destruction, and suffering of the civilian population are far out of proportion to the damage inflicted in the opposite direction.  I am not an international lawyer, but clearly there are issues regarding the laws of war that have properly been raised regarding not only attacks on medical facilities but also the overall manner in which lethal violence has been directed at civilians.  The atrocities that Hamas committed in Israel on October 7th also were violations of international law.  One such violation does not justify the committing of other violations.     

“When people are denied peaceful channels for pursuing grievances, some will resort to violence.”Q: Israeli PM Netanyahu has claimed he wants to remove Hamas from Gaza. Do you think it is practically possible?

A: Even based on the Israeli government's own numbers, the Israeli assault has so far destroyed only a fraction of Hamas's military capability.  Given the current rate and methods of the Israeli military, to "remove" Hamas or even to destroy its military wing would mean continuing the operation in a way that would increase civilian casualties to several times the alarmingly high number they have already reached.  Given that Hamas is much more than just the military wing and has been the civil administration of the Gaza Strip, "removal" is not something that can be accomplished anyway with just a destructive military assault.  

Q: Even if Hamas is debilitated, can it be imagined that new groups would not emerge after some years or that new intifada/intifadas would not begin in the West Bank?

A: Yes, of course it can.  One of the common errors in talking about Hamas is to treat it as some sort of prime mover that is uniquely destabilizing.  Hamas is just one organizational manifestation of Palestinian resistance against occupation and blockade.  Even if Hamas could be "destroyed"--which it really cannot, given how anger over the Israeli assault is gaining Hamas new recruits and support--resistance would take other forms, including groups yet to be formed and acts of resistance by angry individuals.

Q: Sociologically speaking, is it rational to expect around 2 million Gazans who have been put in a concentration camp not to rebel?  Don’t you think the way Israel is treating the Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank automatically breeds extremism and violence?

A: The principles at play are not unique to the Middle East or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  One principle is that when a population is mistreated and its nationalist aspirations suppressed, it will resist.  Another principle is that when people are denied peaceful channels for pursuing their grievances, some will resort to violence.

“There will be unending violence without a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” Q: Do you agree with this view that the Western world is partly responsible for the current situation as it has turned Israel into a “spoiled child” through its unwavering support in a way that the Tel Aviv rulers have turned down any offer to heal this decades-long wound?

A: Obviously the unqualified Western support has been a major factor in enabling Israel to continue down the tragic path that has led to the situation we see today.  One of the unfortunate things about this is that although the tragedy is first of all one for the Palestinians, it also is a tragedy for Israelis, who will never know true peace and security until and unless they recognize the aspiration for self-determination among their Palestinian neighbors.  Those in the West who admire and respect Israel would be true friends of Israel only if they stop enabling the destructive behavior. True love in this case must take the form of tough love.     

Q: Despite the current calamity, Netanyahu boasts that he has stood strong against efforts to establish an independent Palestinian state. With this in mind, is it possible to imagine that a two-state solution can be found to the conflict?

A: It is difficult to imagine an Israeli government with its current extreme-right political make-up ever agreeing to an independent Palestinian state, but politics in Israel can change just as they can change in other countries.  As to whether the construction of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories has gone so far as to make a two-state solution almost impossible, that is a question on which objective observers can disagree.     

Q: What can we learn from history in finding a durable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? 

A: That the conflict, as long as it is not resolved with a negotiated political settlement that meets the nationalist aspirations of both Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs, cannot be sidelined or shoved aside or pushed out of the world's consciousness.  Without such a resolution of the conflict, there will be unending violence.